You'll be hearing from us soon! Regarding saluting courtesy in the cadet corps. Cadets and NCOs do not salute one another. The cadet never will outrank a sergeant first class, master sergeant first sergeant sergeant major etc. Haha. Unprofessional. Its cadets like you that become true leaders, because you have put your ego in check and will EARN the respect of your troops! I was a 13B20-Gunner. They always forgot to take the safety bail/pin out of the RPG fuze and the round would just bounce off our Bradleys, lol. I was assigned to the 25th ID in 1972. I was recently in a conversation with a senior noncommissioned officer in an elite US Army unit, when the subject of CTLT came up. If cadets, during this valuable leadership experience, are not given the chance to act as lieutenants and acting platoon leaders, then the whole CLTC program should be scrapped. I see that USMA had a proud communist recently graduate, he might as well spit in my face and all other better warriors than myself before me. The rank of a cadet is for protocol issues alone such as where to stand in a receiving line or where to sit at a formal dinner. I had another LT in one of the other shops stop me almost with tears in his eyes that I had just salutes 2 other 1LTs on the way into the building and while laughing explained me to that LTs did not salute each other. It would have sent enough juice thru the not yet graduate nor commissioned idiots heart to stop. In 2003 we never went slower than 55, usually 60 MPH and we never lost anyone. Sometimes cadets are relegated to less-meaningful duties, or endure some modicum of hazing as part of the experience. Some of the comments left in this thread have really let me down. CSM Craven has a Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice from Colorado Technical University and a Master of Science in Management from Excelsior College. He recently earned the Professional in Human Resources Certification through the Human Resources Certification Institute. CSM Cravens military education includes all levels of the Non-Commissioned Officer Education System culminating with the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy. . Some points I wanted to make sure I hit are: -No, you don't have to call them sir/ma'am or salute them, but you absolutely should show them the respect you would like to receive. Everyone knows that the lowest Army private outranks the highest cadet right? A straight up lie from a boy who thinks book smarts makes him am expert in my mos. It was never the SNCOs, it was always a SSG, SGT, or junior enlisted Soldier disrespecting these cadets (myself included). So I suppose we dont salute appointed Officers either? To this day I credit a lot of the success I had when I went on active duty after I graduated to this great NCO. Elite only in their mind. The smart ones find a good NCO to mentor them. Don't assume a damn thing, if a young NCO or Soldier tells you he "thinks" the vehicle is ready or has a full tank of fuel, hand him a long stick, send him back to the Motor Pool, have him put the stick into the fuel tank and bring back said stick with fuel on it, that way both of you will now KNOW that the vehicle is fueled. Master Sergeant Carla Loy Song became a member of the West Point Band in 2007. Sorry- from a legal perspective there is a lot not discussed. You guys are all discussing how the Army does it.. Im AF and In Services(Food Svc) i was assigned an Academy Cadet to teach him what i was responsible for as a SSGT. Sergeant Major Schlegel began his enlisted career in August of 2005. Get off your high horse. Enough of my rant! Cadet Physical Program requirements still remain a priority April 1, 2020. Pilot and navigator cadets went to different flight schools. The NCO referred me to AR 600-20, Army Command Policy, which makes it pretty clear that West Point cadets do, in fact, outrank Army NCOs. Not only do NCO's get shit on by their LT's but sometimes the LT is getting shit on by his Company Commander. I have to admit that when he asked what I needed I probably got a little pleasure by responding: a cup of coffee. Cadets are still learning and everyone in the unit should help mentor them and show the value of NCOs. In my case I was lucky and had a CO who was ROTC cadre and knew what to do with me. Here's my advise that will serve you well; always remember this; ASSUMPTIONS ARE THE MOTHER OF ALL FUCK UPS! 2LT Eisenhower, he was a 6' 3" tall man who was assigned to our platoon in 1992. Staff Sergeant Noah D. Taylor of Columbus, Ohio, joined the West Point Band in May of 2015. Technically. Has the. Its like my father (retired CW3) taught me; " I don't have to respect you but I HAVE TO RESPECT your rank.". I was wondering if I would have to make mention of the fact that until they are COMMISSIONED Officers, they will remain nothing more than a glorified E-5 NCO pay scale while in USMA. And cadets initiate salutes to any commissioned officer. This would be wiser than placing a WP Year 1 cadet in charge of it. I really wish I didn't have to speak this way about you kids but most of you did the West Point thing for power or prestige, both of which are useless to Infantrymen, we care less what college you went to, if you can't think on your feat when round crack by you then you get my men killed. Then again for the same categories who were on rear detachment duties! Good answer. A Gunny at 29Palms RTAMS and a Chief at NASA/AMES CA are among my most treasured mentors. I believe my words only carried weight because I've already been in the Army for 10 years and the Senior cadre knew this (I didn't get in any trouble). They've shown great patience, respected my process, and I am grateful for these SFCs, MSGs, and SGMs. He has much humility and respect for all who serve and served so he will appreciate your words. Normal members of the medical team fall within a strict hierarchy (just like rank). He graduated with a Master of Music in composition from Bowling Green State University and a Bachelor of Music in composition from the Capital University Conservatory of Music. Prior to his assignment at West Point, Sergeant Major Schlegel was assigned to the U.S. Army Medical Command Band at Fort Sam Houston, Texas, where he served as the personnel and administration branch chief and performed as principal trumpet in the Concert Band, Jazz Combo, and Rock Band. The reason you would place cadets above enlisted in the rank chart is because they will be officers. In July 2001, after graduation from high school, Perez entered the United States Military Academy at West Point. Future leader in some position in our AF. As far as I know there are no CTLT positions in combat zones. Officers, commissioned warrant officers, midshipmen, cadets, candidates are all affordedofficer status. Sir. Prior to serving in the Army, he was a high school percussion instructor and earned a Bachelor of Arts in music from Truman State University in Missouri. Yet, still burdened with the unsocial characteristic of the enlisted class. The invested money for the cadet wasted. She has served as Operations NCOIC since 2017. Read the regs CAREFULLY people, when you want to use them to make a point. As others have commented, folks should remember that those Cadets that you give a hard time to will in a short time become those officers that are in charge of writing your NCOERs never mind the fact that they also will be your leaders when deployed in a combat zone ( I served in the 1st Cav Div during Desert Shield and Storm), in other words garbage in equals garbage out. Command Sergeant Major Fraser has deployed to Kosovo and Iraq. 2-8. Ask any SJA. Cadet you are not a cadet when in you ng or reserve unit. When I was an O-3, I regularly saluted SGM's first depending on who saw whom first and the nature of the encounter. Podcast Joseph John Quichocho, 1SG E-8 RETIRED US ARMY. The regulations can only go so far in some jobs and situations in our Army and beyond that you need to be resourceful or have friends who are. Is anyone able to give me a solid answer to this question? By reg,they can't command or lead troops in the field. The platoon sergeant major, and his cavalry counterpart, the troop sergeant major, were part of a project giving experienced non-commissioned officers command of units ( platoons and troops) formerly reserved for commissioned officers. I never got gigged for not saluting another LT, so I didnt think much of it. Whoever came up with this interpretation needs to review deeper. She entered the military in March 1999 attending Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina where she was awarded the MOS 75B Personnel . However, the announcement will indicate assumption as acting commander unless designated as permanent by the proper authority. Hell, we even had SGMs who wouldnt butter bars and 1LTs, unless you earned it by being high speed and they knew it. The reason "cadets" are even mention in a gentlemans role is due to long ago medieval social customs. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. This rank business is a technicality of the rank system. When you focus on things that scare you to death, always remember that those are your fears and we're not concerned with achieving the next rank or a nice review. -If you are a cadet and you don't see the value of picking the brain of an NCO (CPL to SGM), then you will most likely be doing your time and moving on. Jesus.. You know this, you are assigned as whatever rank you have in the guard. The only regularly assigned cadets are in the national guard or reserves as a SMP Cadet. She is the premier vocalist for the West Point Band and first sang with them at their season finale 1812 concert in 1980, at the age of 12. When contracted you take the officer version of the oath as well. It's virtually guaranteed there are at least one or two SNCO in a given company qualified to take a short term command of the company. Staff Sergeant Taylor also served as a trombone player with the 323d Army Band "Fort Sam's Own" at Fort Sam Houston. Interestingly, one weekend I had a pass and visited a college friend at a nearby naval base where he was undergoing Navy Aviation Cadet training. I think the part of the reg people have over looked is "the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command". Her education includes a Bachelor of Science in Music Engineering Technology from the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Florida, and a Master of Arts in Management and Leadership from Webster University in St. Louis, Missouri. I really liked the story and learned something as well having been a former SMP Cadet before I commissioned. This regulation shows that cadets rank after commissioned and warrant officers, but before NCOs. Most recently, CSM Craven was the Command Sergeant Major for the 5th Security Force Assistance Brigade (SFAB) at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Washington. I am a cadet and am military police and drill with them as well. If you've ever been in a doctor's appointment and a medical student was assigned to your doctor, that's about how cadets in CTLT and SMP function. I have heard the saying "Stop being an arrogant officer?" Other notable assignments include working within the 2/320, United States Military Academy Preparatory School, Simon Center for the Professional Military Ethic. Master Sergeant Loy Song has played in the Concert Band and Jazz Knights trumpet sections, was a founding member and lead singer of the Benny Havens Band, and is now a member of the Support Staff. original name United States Military Academy at West Point insignia cadets sleeve rank and duty insignia. They're inchoate officers. Serving the Rugged Professional", Survivor Outreach Services | Total Army Sponsorship | Safety, Human Resources | Civilian Expeditionary Workforce, U.S. Army Environmental Command | Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment, HOSPITAL - Keller Army Community Hospital, Military Police and Religous Support Personnel, U.S Army MEDDAC- Keller Army Community Hospital, U.S Army DENTAC- West Point Dental Activity, United States Military Academy at West Point, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment. ). CDT military IDs show geneva convention status 3. Somewhat surprised by this, and thinking back to my own experiences in CTLT, I asked why he felt that way. And taken that way. Then, abruptly, he found a substitute and quit the Army to pursue an appointment to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. So you are always busy and have something to do. It can be a very valuable and rewarding experience if done right and an unfortunate waste of time for the CDT and unit if its not. Her accolades include a Grammy Award for "Best Engineered Album - Classical," engineering and mastering credits on multiple Grammy-nominated albums, an "Award of Excellence" from the Audio Engineering High Resolution Recording Competition, and a Downbeat Award for "Best Engineering for a Live Recording." *Back to the story: At first, I let things go and decided someone had to be tough on these kids, but after a while, I couldn't let it roll on. Combined Security Transition Command Afghanistan (Ministry of Defense Advisor), n Engineering Director Kabul, Afghanistan No commission? But only a complete cadidiot would get his or her cadet rank confused with an NCO's authority and influence. Oh please. Assumption of command under these conditions is announced per paragraph 2-5. I agree with you Sir. Time to Plan for Drones in Other Domains, An Urban Warfare Experts Christmas Wish List, The MWI Top Ten: Our Most Read Articles of 2022, Frank Sobchak Joins MWI as Chair of Irregular Warfare Studies, Announcing the Modern War Institutes 202223 Senior and Research Fellows, Call for Submissions: Civil-Military Relations and Modern War, Call for Applications: MWIs 202223 Fellows Program. Command Sergeant Major: CSM Scott Drewes: The West Point Band (also known as the U.S. Military Academy Band or USMA Band) is the U.S. Army's oldest active band and the oldest unit at the United States Military Academy, traces its roots to the American Revolutionary War. Only through a wriiten agreement from the pms tonthe guard commander are allowed to serve as acting LT's. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The cadet would still have to be "Regularly Assigned". Maj. Roderick Taylor (USAG West Point Command Sergeant Major) October 14, 2016. A (knight) officer is a commissioned officer and formally addressed as "SIR!" I asked if he gave the cadets in his unit a hard time as part of their CTLT experience. We want to mold a new Officer to become a great leader we can always remember but there's a limit to what we're willing to do. Thought about it and stored it away and drove on. -Mentor these young cadets so that they can grow into the Officers that will leverage all the outstanding traits of the NCO Corps. America's Oldest U.S. Army Garrison & Home to the United States Military Academy Col. Anthony "Tony" J. Bianchi Colonel Anthony J. Bianchi is from Tampa, Florida and was commissioned in the Field. Cadets should know that they must earn respect. Cadets are never saluted. Naval Facilities Command Expeditionary Warfare Center, n Region Security Engineer Naples, Italy It's often hard to find but its often the real truth on a subject especially if it's being spoon fed to you in briefs and media. Now, based on personal experience, I cannot say I was comfortable at all with the USMA grad who came into Iraq (2004-06). Sergeant First Class Ehrin Anthony joined the West Point Band in August of 2014. Seems like the worst kind of leader to have. Sometimes, XO is a way of calling the commander or a head of a department in the organization. He previously served in the 282nd Army Band at Fort Jackson as head light designer and percussionist, performing in the Jazz Combo, Rock Band, and Concert Band. We always give you a chance before we let you sink your career all on your own. At that . Most of us own our own firearms and body armor because we assume nothing but pray for the best. *This post originally appeard The Havok Journal*, U.S. Army photo by: Mike Strasser/ USMA Public Affairs, Scott Faithis a veteran of a half-dozen combat deployments and has served in several different Special Operations units over the course of his Army career. As an humorous aside, earlier I mentioned that the junior officers in my reserve unit treated cadets as little more than errand boys. While the other sources trained and commissioned officers for all USAF career fields, the Aviation Cadet Corps produced only pilots and navigators. Paras 2-9 and 2-10, AR 600-20 further reinforce Scott Faiths important points here. Pro-Tip: Don't make a blog post, offer a comment section, then expect not to be schooled by your elders, especially when taking a condescending tone. The West Point Music Research Center is dedicated to understanding and communicating the effects of music through multi-disciplinary research and analysis. I've seen this relationship play out in the Army. The ones that get emotional about my post will reply as expected and miss the lesson altogether because they've been hard wired to respond that way. Mr. Mitchell is a licensed Professional Engineer and a Level III Certified Acquisitions Professional. For lack of official guidance I was assigned as an assistant platoon leader in an Armored Cavalry Company and my platoon sergeant was a former Navy Seal with combat tours in Vietnam (along with other unmentionable places during that conflict). Corporal: Sergeant: Platoon Sergeant: Color sergeant: left sleeve only: First Sergeant: Regimental and Battalion Sergeant Major: Brigade Command Sergeant Major: Lieutenant: Color Lieutenant: Company Commander: Battalion Adjutant: Battalion . Scotts writing focuses largely on veterans issues, but he is also a big proponent of Constitutional rights and has a deep interest in politics. Forces Korea, the Department of Defense, or any agency of the U.S. government. In reserve and guard units, SMP cadets do hold assigned positions, but have no position in the chain of command. Now by chance he.be in a billet at some hq and psperwork comes in front of him about ration counts for personnel and what the job description calls for for a 3m Senior Cook requisition.. for his order.. what its called these days) hell be sble to understand better what the job description says. Does the cadet need to be regularly assigned to a Cadet billet? CDT Vincent High marks! Aviation Cadet training was 15 months. I learned something that day. I have to say that I got a little bit of vindication when I went back to obtain some records from my old guard unit. Somehow, the memo of shifting demographics of new Soldiers within the Infantry never reached West Point so there's a huge disconnect in reality. Before assuming responsibility, Coffey was the command sergeant major for the 3rd Infantry Division at Fort Stewart, Georgia. I always say Semper Fi or Airborne when I return salute. Boy if it wasn't entertainment at its best. A honorific form of address indicating respect but only for officers under the rank of knight. So yes, a West Point cadet DOES outrank a sergeant. As a CDT, I was generally treated pretty well at my unit, this could have been because I was Mustang Officer in training and a former NCO, and that my CO was part of the cadre at Western Illinois, so she made it a point to assign me to a vacant officer position, in this case kind of a huge assignment as the Maintenance PLT LDR at a MED Truck CO, whereas most units dont even know what to do with a CDT. Without our outstanding NCO Corps counterparts, there would be no outstanding officers. I say this as a retired officer. Sergeant Major Schlegel earned his Black Belt in Lean Six Sigma (Process Improvement) in 2016, and is actively involved in building the process improvement community at West Point. single time. 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